We just rented "Sicko," and of course MM portrays NHS as being manna from heaven. I know an older woman from Slough who claims NHS is awful in the UK. She left the UK when she was in her early 20's, has excellent health care here (works for a PUC), and is completely brainwashed by screaming heads on Faux News - so I take her declaration with a truckload of salt.
What's your take on the UK NHS?
Wednesday, December 12, 2007
Hey Vicki
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11 comments:
Steve, you watched that piece of crap???
Steve, I think it's also important to take what MM says with a grain of salt. After all, he has his own agenda as much any other political figure. That said, my experience with the NHS has been very, very good. I've had two babies on the NHS, and the pre and post-natal care that I received was top notch. When my daughter had tonsilitis at the age of 9 months and had to spend 5 days in the pediatric unit, she received excellent care. My husband had chest pains on his 40th birthday, and we were seen immediately by the emergency room and his treatment was fantastic. When my son was 6 months old, he had bronchiolitis (baby asthma) and our GP saw him immediately and provided great care. At the point of service, all this was free. It's paid for in my taxes, but we don't pay anymore income tax than you pay in the U.S. The majority of tax comes from VAT (sales tax - 17.5%), tax on alcohol and cigarrettes (a pack of cigs costs around $10) and of course, gas. We're currently paying around $8/gallon. Sometimes there are waiting lists for non-emergency procedures. For example (and I know John won't mind me telling you this), John had to be circumcized for medical reasons (no, they don't circumcize little boys here because it's not considered medically necessary). This is a non-emergency and therefore he was required to wait his turn. I think he waited about 12 weeks before he finally had the surgery. When my MIL was dying, she received great care, but there was no real effort to keep her alive. She was 69, suffering from n-stage COPD after years of heavy smoking, so the NHS was happy to make her comfortable but let her die. When my mom had surgery in January, there were complications and her doctors were keen to try lots of experimental drugs and equipment. At one point there were no less than 14 machines connected to my mother, keeping various organs working and blood flowing through her veins. She spent a total of 70 days in the hospital and while they saved her life, she now has no voice (from having a tube down her throat for 2 and half months) and is in the first stages of kidney failure from all the drugs they pumped into her. While I can absolutely understand why they did what they did (it wasn't my decision, BTW), on the NHS it wouldn't have happened. She probably wouldn't have had any surgery to begin with, because she's 75 years old, so they probably would have treated the coronary blockage with an angioplasty, and had that failed that would have been the end of it. She would be put on a "waiting list" and if she were lucky, she would have had surgery before the blockage killed her. As it stands, her insurance company is now footing the bill for almost $400,000 dollars worth of treatment, which of course would bankrupt anyone. No one goes broke having treatment on the NHS. However, sometimes you have to be agressive and push for treatment. A colleague of mine lost vision in his left eye last week. Just gone, like that. He went to the doctor who told him that he most like is suffering the after effects of a migraine, to take a few days off work and he'd be fine. Well, one week later, he isn't fine, and now he's having to push his doctor to send him for an MRI. If he gets his checkbook out, he'll get the MRI immediately (as in same day), but if he decides to go through the NHS, his doctor will have to write to the hospital for a referral. The hospital then writes back, and it could be months, literally months, before he gets a scan. No system is perfect, IMO, but I would rather get sick here than in the U.S.
Donna, yes I did.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Sadly, I consider my "friend" MM to be a lying, annoying, jerk who damages his own cause by his lying, annoying, jerk-ness (I imagine a lot of Rep's can say the same about W). Note that I'm asking for an opinion from Vicki as to the "truth," because I think "objectivity" would actually start punching MM in the jowls if it ended up in the same sentence as him.
Having said that, people dying or staying sick in the US because they can't afford to get treatment tweaks me a little.
There's got to be a way to fix that, but I don't know if Canada, the UK, et.al. - or even the noble LP - have found it.
Vicki, thanks for sharing such a well-rounded opinion. I would have bet the British ex-pat I know has a neo-con slanted, American-ized view of NHI in the UK. I'd also bet that any footage shot by MM that doesn't support his agenda is on the cutting room floor.
There's an interview with (I could have the name wrong) Tony Ben - retired MP, on the DVD. I wish there were politicians like that over here - again, is he well-regarded or a crazy liberal over there?
That VAT seems oppressive, but you're getting something for it. Oh, I was the ugly American who upon seeing the GST on a receipt said "wtf?" loud enough to solicit an explanation from a stranger in the 'queue.'
"You have to be aggressive and push for treatment [under NHS]" - doesn't sound much different that what you have to do with the company you're PAYING over here.
I'm surprised a 70-day hospital stay, surgery, experimental meds and procedures only cost $400k. I think, even years ago when my father died, that a hospital stay could be > $10k/day.
It is with great effort that I've avoided making any lewd joke relating John's required procedure to a, uh... "marital over-exertion" of some kind :o
Ah, shit! I just did - sorry about that.
Steve, Tony Benn is a highly respected (and a little bit crazy) elder statesman who people from every political party respect. He's seen it all and done it all and he doesn't give a toss what anyone thinks of him.
I suspect that your expat friend is thinking of the old NHS which existed about 20 years ago. Things have changed alot. There are patient charters guaranteeing all kinds of things, and the quality of the NHS ALWAYS comes up during elections. The 17.5% VAT isn't so bad, because it's already included in the price, so the price you see on the label is the price you pay at the checkout(unless you're at Costco - they add the VAT on for taxable items at the checkout!).
When my mom was in the hospital, she told me (well, mimed, because she couldn't speak) that she wanted to die. I would have respected that wish and let her (and so would the NHS), but her doctor and my brother (who has POA) kept pushing for really agressive treatment. I didn't think it was appropriate and the quality of life she has now after the fact is not very good. But I had to defer to the people in charge. *shrug*
Oh, one more thing about patient charters. The government (under direction of the European Court of Human Rights) has charters for EVERYTHING - NHS, trains, highways, you name it. That Jet Blue thing last year where people spent 11 hours on the runway would NEVER have happened here. The ECHR would never have allowed it, and the government would be paying out millions in compensation if it had.
If you like the story of John's circumcision, you'll really enjoy hearing about his vasectomy. :-)
My friend from Slough left the UK when the Beatles were still together.
I'm glad to hear that TB is well-respected. I think if he were over here, he couldn't even get elected to a school board. We don't like our politicians to be so up-front.
Re: you mother, I know what that's like. I was the family ogre who suggested that maybe we should pull the plug on my father (what he would have wanted). He wasn't even conscious for the last two weeks of his life, but somehow a vegetable on machines was preferable to facing reality.
The fact that your mother could at least mime stuff to you means that she has 'some' quality of life, altho the content of what she's miming sort of negates that. Personal choice v. sanctity of life - I don't know that we'll work that one out for all time on a blog.
The VAT was itemized on a receipt for something I bought - I'll never forget that incident because I was so embarrassed to be the ugly Yank. This was a few years back (1999 or so) at a "services", so it might have been for gas. I also didn't think about having to READ the values on the coins, and (unless I'm remembering wrong) there's no 1 pound notes anymore, so I thought I was short-changed. Worldly, I am not. Was glad to get back on the wrong side of the road and go "circle with a slash thru it" m.p.h. No wonder you're neighbors are always on "world's worst drivers."
Oh, we have charters. Corporations have to have them, and they usually include the words "maximize shareholder value." Geez, I sound like a friggin socialist - I'm not, really.
I'll assume the vasectomy was a ballistics issue. ;)
No, no one pound notes. There haven't been for as long as I've been here (13 years). "Circle with a slash thru it" m.p.h. So you weren't on the motorway then, because that sign only means 60mph, not 70, which is motorway speed.
Where were you going, and what did you think of driving here? I still like driving in the U.S. so much more!
SIGNAGE PROBLEMS:
I guess I'm remembering the sign wrong, because I was on the M4 (Heathrow to Cardiff). A circle with a line thru it, blue and red. I was told the sign means "national speed limit applies," but they neglect to tell you what the friggin' limit IS. Traffic on the M4 was going 80-90mph.
The roundabout signs: I'm expected to digest a freakin' road map while whizzing past it at 90mph?
My British colleagues had a good laugh over my assumption that a sign picturing a camera was a scenic overlook.
GENERAL IMPRESSIONS:
Driving there was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. Making a turn required a moment of conscious thought, shifting left-handed felt weird. It's nice that the roundabouts let you take a whole trip without stopping, but stopping affords you a second to get your bearings.
Sheep overpass - wtf??
EXCUSES TO PRESERVE MANHOOD:
I was traveling alone, it was my first time in there, and it's a pretty long drive, UK-wise. At the time, the elaborate 'bus to the train to the bus' directions the company provided seemed like the pansy's way out.
Once I'd been driven around a by a native, the trip back was a LOT easier.
I'M A MORON:
The "look RIGHT before crossing, you American moron" signs as you hit the street out of Heathrow saved my life - seriously.
I didn't realize how much stuff I do on autopilot. It's a little weird having to actually THINK about how to cross the street.
The blue sign with the red line through it means you're not allowed to stop on the motorway. If the sign had been grey with a darker grey line through it, THAT one means national speed limit, which is 60mph. The usual motorway speed is around 80.
I learned how to do roundabouts on a bike in a park before I graduated to a car on the road, and even now I find that sometimes I have to go all the way around the roundabout and have a good look to figure out which exit I need. As for crossing the street, well, I was nearly run over everyday for the first six months of my life here because I looked "left-right-left" instead of "right-left-right". Now I have the opposite problem when I go home to the U.S.
Steve, am I right in thinking you never wrote a bio for the blog?
Well, now that you've described the signs and their meanings, it's obvious.... only a fool wouldn't realize that a circle with a line means "don't stop", and a different colored circle with a different line means "go the speed limit, whatever it is."
Are those signs British or European? I assume the EEC/EU wants standardized signage in member nations.
Yes, your thoughts on my bio are correct.
Lovely conversation!! I am learning so much - can I go home now?
So Steve, are you going to post a bio with pictures????
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